Saw 8 different bucks a weekend ago in cooler weather. 4 were still running together one evening and all 4 were 120 class or bigger. 2 bucks in that group were sparring and the biggest buck, a 140+ nontypical, ran them around to put them in their place. Also was saw 2 more bucks the next day sparring - one saw the other from 100 yards away and actually turned and went back the way he'd come to intercept and spar with the other buck. Finding several new rubs in travel lanes. Found the first field scrape 3 weeks ago. No real chasing yet but one morning I did have a 2 year old buck half heartedly run a doe and fawns around till they left on the run. Need cooler weather to spur any consistent buck daylight activity - with the full moon most buck movement is still at night.

Counting the buck that was working the scrape in the front yard at 6:00 am Sat morning when I was trying to leave the house and caused me to be 15 minutes late, I saw 6 bucks this weekend. No chasing and didn't see any bucks trailing does but saw more scrapes and rubs. But for a little misfortune I would possibly have been done Sat morning. I hunted a new stand I built this summer in a white oak tree 20 yards away from the timber edge where the pasture indents into the timber along the top of a hillside. I've got 2 of my better stands down the hill in the timber and over the years I've see plenty of deer "cut the corner" so to speak and cross the open pasture edge. The wind was right Sat morning and in past years I would have gone into the timber to hunt the hillside but I didn't want my scent to spook anything walking the edge. I got in w/o spooking anything. At 8:00 am I had a really big bodied 165 class 10 point with character - stickers - come out of the timber from the north and start towards the tree. I hadn't seen him before. I know I have bigger bucks, but when I saw the big sticker coming sideways out of the right G-2 and then more stickers -he had so much character that I was going to take him. While I went to grab the bow he stopped and looked to the east - my right - and kept staring for about 30 seconds then jumped and ran west into the timber. I couldn't figure out what happened unless it was the cows in the next pasture. About 10 - 15 seconds later a coyote trotted in from the pasture between my tree and where he stood - I know where the coyorte went cause I heard the turkeys down the hill get real excited. I thought maybe the buck would come back out but no luck- he probably walked under one of my other stands. I ranged the spot where he stood at 39 yards. 20 minutes later I had a 120 class 8 pt come out in the same place and he crossed at 10 yards in front of the stand. Maybe he'll be around next weekend.

I was wrong about the chasing - it's started, just a matter of being in the right place to see it. Typically the smaller bucks go first and my buddy saw a decent 8 and a small 6 chasing does back and forth across the pasture behind the farm house Sunday evening - maybe the cooler weather after the front got them frisky. The end of October is generally the time when I see the big boys start getting serious and begin scent checking the doe travel lanes so this weekend should present more possibilities. Our rut will really kick in by the 4th or 5th of November and peak time is the week of the 11th but the biggest bucks are seen later in November - the week prior and to Thanksgiving - after a number of does have been bred.

Sorry about losing the picture from the previous post - it was there and then the host removed it. I'll try it again. These are a couple of bucks I've followed all spring and summer - picture was taken the end of August while they were still in velvet. Haven't seen either one of them yet from a stand but have seen the one on the right crossing the pasture behind the house. Depending on the mass left after the velvet came off the one on the left may be a shooter this year.

Doe numbers on feed field continue to grow as more milo is cut out. More than likely bucks will be getting pushed to different cover. In my area, Central KS, they have not been very active during the day or evening. I did see two bachelor bucks walk out into field for first time last night. By no means were they shooters, but good to finally see antlers. My buddy is an auto insurance agent in area, he's starting to get more calls for deer hits. Cooler weather is making them more active. I have decided to stay out of all stands, until weather turns cooler. Lower 70's seems to kill most activity. My guess is we'll all be into it heavy by the 6th or 7th -- come on cooler weather.

Forgot to question, if any one else has notice a decrease in number of scrapes, and rubs....I'm hoping they just haven't been active in areas I'm hunting along river, and it's not the 4wheeler or Mt bike traffic. Any input??

A friend and his son hunted the farm from Wedneday afternoon through Friday - they saw several small bucks trailing does - no chasing - they did see 2 older bucks, a big bodied swollen necked 5 pt "he had a tall rack and long tines but no brow tines" and a bigger buck with 4 long tines and heavy mass on the right but the left side was broken off above the brow tine. I didn't get off work early enough to hunt Friday evening and had to watch from the house - saw 9 behind the farm house including 2 bucks which were trailing 60 to 80 yards behind does which showed no real interest in the boys other than avoiding them. I saw a couple more small bucks Saturday morning and my buddy saw 1 Sunday morning, again just trailing does. Found new scrapes. Thought it was too warm and windy to hunt Saturday evening so stayed in and saw the 8 ptr "on right in above picture" come out in the pasture behind the house 10 minutes before dark - got to watch him work a scrape just at dark - he didn't seem real interested in a doe and fawn that I was also watching. Still need cooler weather to get the big boys chasing in daylight and the forecast doesn't look good for cooler weather next weekend. Rut should be going next weekend and it's been my experience that in a warm year the main chasing and breeding gets done at night, but I agree with Dean Weimer in his "Mid-day Magic" article in NAW and you'd better watch out during the middle of the day when the bucks cruise between doe bedding areas. Can't tell you how many times I've been in the house during the rut and seen really big bucks cross the pasture between 10:30 am and 2:00 pm.

Dug up another picture of the 2 bucks above with a friend - have only seen 2 of them so far since they lost their velvet. Good luck.

Modified by farmerbt1 at 9:37 AM 11/23/2005

Hello Sir, Dean Weimer here from Garrett, Indiana. I just happened to go to the Kansas forum and saw you mentioned about the mid-day hunting. This warm weather is messing everybody up I think. Bucks have been chasing does here in NE Indiana since last week, but I don't think there is a lot of breeding going on per se. I'm sure there is a little going on. Of course, tomorrow is the first day of November so I guess anything can happen. This is really the time that I like to go out and sit tight all day long. Good hunting to you sir. You can go on the Indiana section and chat with us "Boilermakers". Good luck!!

Good looking bachelors, by the way.
Modified by Dean Weimer at 4:12 AM 11/1/2005

I can second the fact of trailing but no hot chasing going on. I was out hunting Nov. 1 in my area of east-central Kansas and saw quite a few bucks following does. All total I had a 2 bucks within 20 yards-1 scoring in the 150's and another in the upper 130's but too much thick stuff in the way. Saw another group of bucks with some does-1 in the mid 140's and the other in the low 130's. Saw several other lesser bucks out roaming by themselves. The 2 bucks scoring in the 130's wound up together in another field I could barely see and had a good 5 minute sparring match with a number of other deer running around being spectators. It was a great morning-the overnight cold might have spurred on some movement "thank goodness". Until now I had been seeing a lot of sign but very little buck movement-mostly only small bucks. Hopefully tomorrow will be the day. If the wind is right I'm moving my stand to the draw that funneled all those deer through as opposed to the treeline I thought they were going to follow. Good luck to all.

Just went out to refill drip bag over mock scrape, nothing had touched it in a week. It's 85 today with the forecast to drop 10 degrees tommorrow, and another 10 by mid week. "Rubber boots are killer on these days - - hot hot." Took my decoys in with me and placed them in timber pile near stand. Hunted last thursday, within one week had 6 new scrape areas near food plot. Does size of scrape have any indication of deer size? I'm posting that question in bow hunting section as well. One is about 3.5 feet by 3.5 feet & 1- 1 1/2 inces deep. The foilage in river is opening up and can see many heavily used trails back in timber. Think I'll hold off a few more days to go in. Wow, really got my blood flowing: was really hard to get in & get out today.

Hard to get excited when its 58 degrees at 4:30 in the morning on November 5 - hard for me and hard for the deer. Even with that temperature three of us saw a total of 25 Sat morning including 5 bucks. I saw 2 small bucks, then grunted in a 3 1/2 8 pt with a split G-2 and lots of potential and 1/2 hour later had 6 does and 5 fawns in one group spaced from 2 feet to 9 yards from my doe decoy and you'd think there would be some dandy bucks hanging around that many females, but no. My buddy and his son saw 11 Sat morning including 3 bucks.

Saw just a few deer Sat evening and all were late - after 5:20 but my buddy's son did see did see one big one right after legal shooting time and couldn't tell just how many points. 41 degress this morning and we expected big things. My buddy hunted my stand this morning and also saw 14 with 5 different bucks including a 4 1/2 10 pt he couldn't coax in any closer than 60 yards and a 3 1/2 with a broken rack. Between the 3 of us we saw 14 different bucks this weekend and not one was chasing a doe although 2 of the bucks half heartedly dogged a couple of does for a few minutes.

Usually we are seeing all kinds of rutting action by this time of year. Lower temps aren't predicted until this coming Friday and when it drops that should help, and the full moon is coming as well - when this rut finally breaks loose I'm guessing that it's going to be hot and heavy. Haven't checked but I hope the moon's overhead in the daytime and not at night. Good luck.

Second Saturday in a row with a morning temp at 55 or above - and add in 30-40 mph winds and the deer movement was nonexisent. The rut has started though - I had to stop on the higway Friday afternoon to let a big buck cross and my brother had the same thing happen to him on Thursday afternoon and a few miles farther and he watched a doe run into the side of a SUV.

Much better day today with light winds and cooler temps. Had 6 does and fawns straggle in behind my stand this morning and wanted to use them as live decoys but the wind finally shifted after an hour and they left. Saw 2 spikes and then no action from 9 till 11. Between 11:02 and 11:12 the woods exploded as 6 bucks came through chasing 3 different does and with fawns scattering. Biggest buck was about a 130 and he chased one doe south. The next doe was chased by 2 bucks which were slightly smaller. The third poor doe was small and had 3 small bucks in tow. She ran them in circles and then came right at the stand with all 3 right on her tail and she did a U-turn at 15 feet. Then no action till 12:30 when another doe was chased to within 6 feet of the stand by a small 8. Got down after they left to do chores.

Saw the 8pt on the right in the above photos chase a doe out of the timber and through the pasture at 4:00 this afternoon - they made enough noise that I heard them coming for more than 100 yards - they were on the other side of the pasture about 130 yards away. Got pinned in the stand tonight by a doe and her fawns. They were eating acorns under my white oak stand and wouldn't leave - waited 45 minutes after dark and I finally had to get down with her at 22 yards and in the moonlight. Managed to get all the way down and 10 feet from the stand before she couldn't stand it any more and blew. Doubt if she will be around that stand again too soon.

Got up at 12:30 last night to use the bathroom and with the moonlight I got the binocs out and ended up watching 9 in the pasture behind the house. Couldn't see a buck for sure but from the way they were running I'm sure that he was there.

Now is the prime time to be in the woods. Good luck to everyone.

a friend spent the afternoon at the farm while I was at work and I just called him and he was excited as he saw 3 bucks and 7 does from the farm house - said he had a buck in the front yard at 1:00 pm and then 2 more cross the pasture behind the farm house at 4:10 and at 4:30. He thought from the size that all three were 3 1/2 year old deer so it looks like the cooler weather and the rut stage has some bigger boys picking up their daytime cruising. Will be hunting tomorrow and can't wait.

Finally got to see the big nine point in the picture above. Saw him at 1:38 pm this afternoon standing 20 yards outside the back fence looking at the house "50 yards out from the house" - just cruising across the pasture. Tried to get pictures and did but the camera was put up and he saw me in the window and by the time I got it on the tripod he was going away from me.

Two of us saw 15 bucks not counting the 9-er, including a dark "chocolate" racked 10 my buddy saw last night that said would score about 165 and is perfectly matched with 10-11 inch G-2's and G-3's, a big nontypical - my buddy couldn't estimate the size but said the rack went up over 2 feet above his head and had lots of mass, another big 10 in the 155+ range and we saw the 8 "on the right in the above pics" twice and I passed him at 30 yards and my buddy passed on him last night at 12 yards - he'd already seen the chocolate buck and the nontypical and was holding out. This is the time of year when we generally see more of the bigger bucks - we last saw the big 9 in August, hadn't seen the chocolate buck since last winter and hadn't seen the nontypical or the big 10 before this fall. Hunting 15+ different stands and not overhunting any one of them and we still have bucks we know are there from preseason sightings and have yet to see them with a bow in hand.

Walked a 1/2 mile from the house to a stand this morning and no matter what I did I bumped deer - it started 30 yards outside the gate - got snorted at by seven different deer walking through pastures, all singles - like every 100+ yards, and including the ones I spooked and heard run once I got in the timber I counted 12 deer on the way - most likely why I'm not seeing some of the bucks. I called in a 3 1/2 year old 8 - 130 class - this morning at 10:45 - saw him 90 yards away running the timber edge between bedding areas - and he responded to doe bleats followed by buck grunts and came on the dead run - almost didn't get the call put up - he ran by the stand at 8 yards and spent 5 minutes looking for the doe and the competition. Passed him in hopes of seeing a bigger one and didn't.

We never saw any chasing this weekend and never heard any chasing - which was really surprising - but since Friday we saw several fawns traveling without momma so the rut is still on. Bucks are doing more cruising mid-day. Saw most bucks between 10 and noon running the doe travel lanes and then the last 45 minutes before dark - they seem to be much more active in the mornings. 10 more days until things change big time when the gun season opens.

My son set up a photo acccount for me - here's 2 pictures taken Sunday afternoon as the 9 point in the above pictures went away from the farmhouse at 1:40 pm - he was cruising across the pasture at midday when he came up within 50 yards behind the house and then left when he saw me in the window. Almost 2 full months of bow hunting and it's the first time anybody has seen him since late August. Doesn't look to have lost much mass since shedding his velvet. Last week and this week are the time of the year, and in our rut stage, when the biggest bucks tend to show up in daylight so it is definitely hunt all day time and naturally I was in the house and not in a stand. We have no row crops so it's hard to get a pattern on the bigger bucks on our farm - just have to pick the right spot and be there at the right time and the hope they get close. Gun season in 6 days will push more deer in - you can only get one buck license a year in KS and you have to pick - bow or gun - a big reason for our quality deer. Anybody want to take a guess at a gross score - mine is 155-160. Good luck to everyone.

Ok, I could use some advice. I shot a nice P&Y today...a little low and midway back on the body. However, the shot was angled away-may have got a small piece of one lung. Obviously, at least partly a gut shot. I've shot a number of deer with my bow but never gut shot one. I waited about 40 minutes before I started trailing him. My arrow did have some stomach content on it but after a short time the blood trail turned to a light red and didn't let up much for around 300 yards. Last blood I found was right after he jumped a fence and stood at the edge of a field. Any thoughts? Do you think he's dead or does it sound like a wound that will heal? I'm going to go back in the morning and look up and down the drainages that are located in the direction of his travel.

Strangest rut I can ever remember - 22 degrees Friday morning at 6 and 54 degrees this morning at 6 - 3rd weekend this month with at least one morning temp above 50. Have seen the least amount of actual chasing that I can recall. Have seen some daytime cruising but not the amount I normally see with cooler temps. I never saw or heard a big buck grunt chasing a doe this season. I blame it all on the higher temps - I believe the main breeding has been at night this month. With the higher Nov temps maybe the secondary rut in Dec will be more productive this year.

Friday morning sat in a timber pinch travel lane where I could watch 2 other pinches and the ends of 3 pastures and saw 17 but 9 were in the next pinch south. Saw fawns without does and had one fawn bawling while seaching for momma - with cold temps deer were active all morning with 6 does and fawns passing thru after 10:00. Saw 2 bigger bucks right after daylight but no chasing. Friday evening sat watching a back hay field and only saw 4 at a distance with 2 being small bucks which were out early and in a search mode.

Much warmer Sat morning - 40 - and I sat on the same stand as Friday morning and saw 0 but did see a bobcat and did hear 2 bucks fighting about 100 yards from my stand on the way in before daylight and tried to slip around them and in but got caught by one of them at the base of the tree. On Sat morning my buddy hunted the same stand I sat in Friday evening and he saw between 15 and 20 with several bucks and saw chasing by one of the bigger bucks and saw fawns on their own so some of the does are still being bred - but all action was over by 8. His son sat covering the travel lane where I saw so much action Friday morning and he also saw 0. Saturday evening we saw 5 total between the 3 of us and we were hunting some good stands - too warm. It was feast or famine - you just had to be in the right spot at the right time.

Found the remains of 2 fresh deer kills by a stand Sat afternoon - conservation dept says we don't have "confirmed" cougars in KS, but we do - they've been seen by several people on both sides of us and I've found their tracks and reported it - and I saw a doe last year with her right rear flank sliced open to the meat with three 4 inch long slashes spaced an inch apart - doubt if any barbed wire did that.

Even warmer, and windy, this morning and played cat and mouse with the turkeys and saw 0 deer until I saw a doe and 2 fawns after 10:00 come in to bed 50 yards away, then saw 4 more come by feeding on acorns at noon. All I can figure is that they were out in front of the big storms we had late today and tonight. Go figure - deer more active at noon - and no bucks around.

Hope everybody else has better weather and luck.

Best guess is he's going to die - if you pushed him he can go a long long ways before he beds and then the blood trail will disappear with that type of hit - several years ago I hit one from back to front but too far back - a ground shot and the arrow was buried in him - and mistakenly let him see me move after he stopped. I trailed him for over 3/4 mile before I lost the trail. Searched for 2 days and into 2 other sections but never found him. Did you ever find a spot where he stopped and/or laid down? If not then he possibly knew you were there or behind him. He'll most likely go to water if that helps. Good luck.

I am down in SE Kansas. In the last week, I am finally starting to see some chasing. In fact, I almost got one with my colorado. He was running full tilt after a doe and she crossed the road.

Thanks for the reply. I talked to the landowner where the last bit of blood was found before it crossed onto his property. Landowner didn't give me permission to look for him but that's understandable. I wouldn't want someone traipsing all over my land while I was trying to hunt either. They said they would call me if they found it. As far as going to water, that is what I always was told growing up but in this case all of the wooded areas have drainages running through them so anywhere he was in the woods he was along the water.

I am a biologist and contacted the KDWP early in the season because I saw a mountain lion in Miami County at about 25 yards. No doubt what it was. KDWP does not deny the fact that they are in Kansas. They just say that there is not a substantial population in Kansas. Be glad when gun season is over so the woods calm down. I still haven't seen any real chasing but a lot of cruising-it keeps them coming good when calling-at least where I've been hunting. Good Luck.

My buddy hunted Wednesday and that morning saw 20 including several bucks. He saw some actual chasing at the other end of the hay field by one of the bigger bucks. Later in the morning he had the chocolate buck "165 class 10 poimnt" 2 steps from clearing the final branches at 20 yards with several does and fawns in the hay field in front of him and he sensed something just wasn't right and hung up. He watched and then did a 180 and slowly walked away. It is truly amazing to watch some big boys and see just how cautious they truly are - like a 6th, or even a 7th, 8th and 9th, sense. No other reason for him to stop and nobody else spooked - he apparently just knew that something wasn't right.

Had to turn the cows loose in the timber last weekend for the winter and we fought the cold and cows all week. They really affect the deer movements. Didn't see a lot more deer activity until Sunday morning when I got away from the cows. I was foolish enough Sunday morning to go out in 20 degree weather with single digit wind chills and sit in a ladder stand facing the wind. The only salvation to freezing my face and fanny off was seeing 15 deer. Had 8 within 20 yards including a 3 point with a nice sized body for a young deer and a 2 1/2 year old 8 point which was grunting occasionally and what I call "slow chasing" 3 does and 3 fawns across the length of the hay field and right by the stand. Let them pass and they were gone about 40 minutes before he chased them back and across another hay field at 80 yards.

Cold finally got to me and I got down at 9:30. My buddy saw the bigger bucks on Wed in the same hayfield after 9 but I couldn't take it any longer. No telling what if anything I might have missed.

We didn't notice any fawns traveling without momma this week. Got night time trail camera pics of 6 different bucks last week, including the big 9 and the 8 above. Bucks pics were not time sequenced with the pics of does and fawns so I would guess the bucks were just checking the areas where the does traveled.

Still the strangest rut I can remember - high temps during the major rut period and not a lot of normal visible daytime chasing and now the bitter cold after the prime rut is over. The secondary rut should hopefully start this weekend or next week. I don't like the bitter cold and the season seems like it is almost over - way too soon - and then I'll have to wait 9 months to start again. 2 years ago I had bucks dropping antlers a month from today.

A friend says he saw chasing twice this week with the bucks mainly chasing this years fawns and one evening he watched 2 bucks fight for over an hour - the real deal - and they didn't pay any attention to him when he walked out at dark.

Another feast or famine weekend for me. Didn't see any actual chasing but did see bucks following fawns, or does with fawns. Saw 4 does and a small buck Saturday morning in the snow - lots of tracks, but I think the deer were still laying low in the morning due to the temps and the wind. Over the noon hour Saturday I spent 45 minutes with binocs watching the narrow 8 point on the right above eating acorns along a row of oaks on a high bank 250+ yards behind the house. He really stood out with the snow background.

Sat on the same stand Saturday evening to get away from the cows. The weather warmed up to the highest temp in the last 10 days and the deer were already out in the neighbor's winter wheat field at 3:00 when I slipped into the stand. Saw a total of 20 deer including 3 bucks and one was a really big one but of course he's the one which never got any closer than 160 yards. The other 2 went by at 35 yards right before dark following does with fawns - both were 2 1/2 year olds and nice deer but weren't big enough to get excited about.

Hunted the other side of the farm this morning and saw 0 deer but did see a number of toms come off the roost but none close enough to fling an arrow. Also had some the cows go by. My buddy came down last night and he saw 7 does and fawns this morning with an 8 point in tow.

Most of the snow melted off overnight last night when the temps stayed above freezing most of the night. Had commitments and couldn't hunt tonight. Got more trail camera pics this week of does and 4 different bucks and some of the pics were time sequenced with bucks around the does/fawns. Also found 2 new fresh rubs on trees in the front yard - one will probably kill the tree since it girdled the whole tree - thought they were all done with that but apparently not - maybe it's a sign of the second rut. Good luck to everyone.
Modified by farmerbt1 at 7:45 PM 12/11/2005

Bow season has been open for 2 1/2 months and no one has seen him from a stand and he's only been seen once in daylight in the above pictures, but I have pictures of him taken at night inside the farm house yard including this one from last week. Shows just how elusive a big boy can be and he's not the only one we know that lives on the farm and we haven't seen at all since summer.

Modified by farmerbt1 at 8:26 AM 12/14/2005

Modified by farmerbt1 at 8:27 AM 12/14/2005

Modified by farmerbt1 at 8:35 AM 12/14/2005
Modified by farmerbt1 at 7:07 PM 1/3/2006

that is one beautiful deer!!!!! thanks for the pics!

Saw some slow chasing/pestering by a big buck Sat evening on the neighbor's wheat field. I watched the big 9 point and a smaller buck and 10+/- does and fawns behind the farm house Saturday morning in the moonlight from 3:30 am till 4:30 am and didn't see any chasing - watched them so long I went back to bed and ended up staying in.

Did see a big buck chasing some fawns this morning at 5:30 in the snow behind the house. Didn't go out this morning because of the wind chill and I was sitting at the computer in the bedroom window cleaning up camera cards and organizing pics on the computer when I looked out the window at 8:15 this morning and saw 13 does and fawns - all grouped up for the winter and no boys around.

That is a pretty neat picture. Will you e-mail me again so I can send you a picture of a huge Kansas buck? I didn't know if maybe you could tell me more about this buck, etc.

Thanks,

Dean Weimer

deanweimer43@yahoo.com

Hunted Friday evening and saw 12 total including one buck and he was a big one. Unfortunately he crossed the hay field at the other end - 300 yards away - and I didn't need binoculars to see his rack. The buck came out at the same time as 9 does and fawns but he was off by himself. The 10 came out of the bedding area at 4:30 and headed for the neighbor's wheat field and then I didn't see anything else until 5:20 when I saw 2 more does. Nothing close to me at all and no boys trailing any of the does.

I got trail camera pictures of several bucks this last week and the bucks were time sequenced where it appears they are beginning to travel together again. Here's a picture taken on a trail camera set up in the front yard - this is the same 9 point in the above pictures and he survived the first gun season. I got picures of him on 3 consecutive nights - he still remains 100% nocturnal. Good luck and Merry Christmas to everyone.

I've had a nose professionally thumbed at me. I didn't get home early enough to hunt Friday evening and had to watch from the house. Had a lot of cattle right behind the house and wasn't expecting to see much. After seeing the big 9 point in the above pictures only once since August, and with our regular archery season ending yesterday, he walked out of the woods 150 yards behind the house "and from right under a stand" Friday evening at 5:30 pm following the narrow racked 8 point in the pictures. If I didn't know better I think he did it just to mock me and say "I told you that you couldn't get me". I hope to get a chance to watch him this year grow into something much bigger. Since the regular archery season is over and the antlerless season now runs through next Sunday he should be safe unless he drops his antlers real quick and wanders off the farm.

My buddy was off and hunted the farm Thursday through Saturday morning and saw a number of deer but no big boys and no chasing or following by any bucks. He saw 4 bucks yesterday morning and no does. I got more trail camera pictures this week and some were time sequenced with as many as 5 bucks traveling together "I did get pictures of 2 bobcats together on the trail camera in the front yard". After seeing the 2 bucks together Friday evening it just confirms that our rut is over and we're settling into a winter pattern. I won't be surprised to see some of the bucks start showing up without antlers.

Good luck to everyone still hunting.

Here's pictures of the 9 point from last spring and a final trail camera picture of him two weeks ago.

Modified by farmerbt1 at 9:25 AM 1/1/2006

The trial camera just doesn't do the 9 point justice. Here's a picture from July 31. Can't wait to see what he looks like next year.

Hey Bill, I'm glad to hear that your big boy is still around. He sure is a beauty!! My guess is that he'll be a typical 5x5 next season with several stickers coming off the bases. His coat looks roughed up in one of the winter pictures above. Is that just from laying around, etc.?? We've seen some bucks without antlers here in Indiana. It seems that some of them are losing them a little earlier than normal. I think it is because of the severe conditions we experienced right after the primary rut was ending. You mentioned seeing bucks together. This is something I've also witnessed this time of year. It seems that since the testosterone levels are dropping that they become buddies again. About 3 years ago on Christmas Night I saw 5 bucks together, all with full racks intact, in a light snow. It was beautiful to see them all together. Man I wish I would have had my camera with me that night. Happy New Year!!!!!

Dean: I'm also glad he's still around. I'm not sure that I would have ever taken a shot this year if I'd been given the opportunity - he's got too much potential for this next year. I tried to convinve my hunting buddy to let him go if he got the chance but from his comments I have serious doubts he would have held off and now I don't have to worry. I can't explain his coat. Don't know if he's been rubbing on something - I found a picture taken 2 days earlier which just starts to show some of the ? wear? Happy New year back at ya - look forward to reading more of your articles. BT

Dean: Now you've got me studying the pictures and I believe he's just bristling at another buck out of sight in the first picture - I had noticed his coat but hadn't given it a lot of thought before. His neck also looks a lot bigger in that picture. While I'm seeing bucks in sequential trail cam pictures "taken a minute apart" I've only got 1 picture in the last 2 weeks where 2 bucks "other than 2 of the younger ones" are actually seen together and up close in the same picture. BT

Hey Bill, I am currently working on an article which deals with a 247"N.T. that was found dead down in SE Indiana. This will be in the top 5 all-time in this category for Indiana. Indiana is starting to come on some now. I'm interested to know what the Ferguson buck will score. It won't be long now. How often do you have to change your CF card in your Cuddeback??

By the way Bill, how old do you think this buck is????
Modified by Dean Weimer at 6:15 AM 1/4/2006

Dean: I'm changing the cards weekly and getting 70-90 pictures a week on each camera - one in the front yard and one in the side yard, but I've gotten as many as 70+ pictures in one 24 hour period.

Sometimes I do my best thinking in the middle of the night and I think I totally missed your question on the deer age of the NT which was found. I bet you're going to tell me that he was either real young - maybe 3 1/2 "still young to me", or real old. Was he aged by tooth rings, jaw? How old was he?
Modified by farmerbt1 at 7:42 AM 1/5/2006

Sorry Bill. I meant how old do you think your buck is??

Dean: I don't know if you got to read my last post before I went back and changed it. My hunting buddy is a big deer hunter and does taxidermy work and while he has only seen the 9 point once in person "when the buck appeared at mid-day behind the house this last fall" he has seen most all the pictures. He thinks the buck's general appearance is of an older deer - and he particularly thinks his rack is too big for 3 1/2 and judges he must be 4 1/2, but probably no older than that. I'm not so sure he isn't just 3 1/2 because he doesn't show a lot of grey in the face compared to other bucks he runs with, his brisket hasn't filled out like an older buck and his stomach doesn't yet sag or show a posture like an older buck. I've got the bucks with the genetics to produce one like him at 3 1/2. He also doesn't appear to be a real aggressive or intentionally dominating buck when I have watched him around other bucks "outside the rut". From being able to watch bucks up close year round I have also found that the older bucks "4 1/2 on" reach a point where they just avoid the house, or being seen from the house in daylight, altogether - except during the rut - and the 9'er hasn't yet started that total avoidance yet, unless I've spooked "= trained" him this fall. As you well know every buck is different and maybe he won't - at least for another year. I'd like to think he's one of the ones which have been raised, so to speak, around the house over the last 3-4 years and hang around or aren't afraid to come around, year round. I'm sure the deer are used to my smell as I don't worry anymore about scent control on my feet or hands when I change out the camera cards or batteries and it doesn't seem to bother them at all, but that may also be a product of being heard, seen and smelled around the farm year round as I work with the cattle. As a measurer I'd guess you've had a lot more chances to jugde or confirm age. Do you think he's over 3 1/2? If you're interested I have quite a number of pictures of him and other bucks taken over the last year since I got a digital camera. Sorry - didn't mean to go on for so long. BT

I think earlier I said I thought he was 3.5. I based that on antler mass. I've recently realized that you can't always base age on antler mass. This past season I shot a buck that, if I based his age on antler mass, would assume he might only be 2.5-3.5. However, I had an encounter with this buck during archery 2004. He was an up and coming buck that I judged to be 3.5 based on his size, looks, etc. When I saw him this year I was blown away to see that he was a big bodied buck with the same, identical eight points that he had last year. His rack didn't really appear to grow at all. That is why I decided to shoot him. He dressed at 206#. I'm pretty sure he was 4.5. He had changed drastically in facial/body appearance. He went from looking like an 18-20 year old "kid". To a 25-28 year old WWF hoss!!! Sorry to use such a lame analogy, but you probably get the picture. I agree that your 9 is a 4.5 year old. He's going to be real stud next year.

Dean: Thanks for your input. Maybe I'll have the opportunity to let you see him in more pictures this year and maybe I'll get to be up real close and personal with him in one of the pictures.

As of last night the deer season officially ended in Kansas. Spent the last 3 days of the season working cattle and didnt get out to do any hunting at all. Saw some does from the house with no boys around. Helper did see 20++ deer on Wednesday morning in a lower pasture, including several smaller bucks and 2 big boys they ran across the pasture in front of him in two separate mixed groups. Friday morning he saw 10+ in the same pasture with one big buck and some smaller ones all in one group and he stopped while they again ran across in front of him and then they stopped to look back at him. Thought Id check out that pasture on the way through the farm yesterday morning to finish up with the cattle - "cattle have started calving early and I moved them out of the timber a week ago and what a difference it makes to the deer - they're back". When I drove out of the timber there were 8 deer in the part of the pasture I could see and a big flock of turkeys. What appeared to be two small bucks had their heads down pushing or sparring at the far end and a much much bigger deer was standing by the fence in the shadows and watching them. The deer stood and watched while I stopped and then when I started up again to turn around they ran, but the turkeys never left the field. I ended up seeing a total of 17 deer on the way through one end of the farm. I cant tell whether any secondary rut that we've had is over, but I would guess so. Typical winter pattern is for the deer to group up. Im sure that some bucks are still feeling their oats and they will sometimes run with or follow a group of the does and fawns until the boys finally break off into their bachelor groups this month or next. Haven't seen any without antlers yet on the trail cameras and it's hard to tell when they're running. Good luck to those still hunting.

Heres a picture of a couple of bobcats taken on the trail camera in the front yard.

and here's a side view of the 9 from last summer which shows off some of his mass in comparison to his last year's traveling companion -the narrow racked 8 which is also still around.

Modified by farmerbt1 at 6:21 PM 1/9/2006

Cool pictures Bill, and cool stories. Question: do the Bobs prey on deer at all. We have a few around here, but not a bunch.

I've never seen a bobcat take on a deer and unless it could be a really young fawn I don't think they bother them much at all. I've seen some male cats that I would guess weighed up to 30-40 pounds - maybe 2 times + the size of the lead cat in the picture which I'd guess is momma. I've faced cats on the ground before inside of 15 feet, I've had a momma with kittens walk right thru a covey of quail which froze right under my stand and the cats never saw them - everything is based upon movement, and I've had a young 2/3 grown cat try to stalk 3 does w/i 25 yards of my stand and they weren't really acting like they were deathly afraid - they gave it everything it could handle with the stomping and snorting and they actually went at it and drove it off. They come in/thru the yard to hunt the rabbits. You haven't had an experience until you're slipping thru the woods in the absolute pitch dark being real quiet and have 2 cats begin fighting in the creek bottom inside of 40 yards - after your heart restarts and you retrieve your hat where your hair stood up, you think about either going back home to change or looking for a tree to climb just to be safe. I'm really afraid of running into the big cougar that has been seen on the adjoining farm - they do get after the deer big time - my buddy got growled at "deep gutteral growl - he described it like you'd hear the lions at the circus" a couple of years ago just after he climbed in a stand before daylight 175 yards below the house - scared the dickens out of him. BT
Modified by farmerbt1 at 9:05 AM 2/9/2006

Dean: Notice the times - these were my Christmas presents in the yard and I couldn't unwrap them.

The size of the tarsal glands on this guy caught my attention - compare them to the buck 2 pictures up. I can't remember ever seeing a buck with bigger tarsal glands and still this black so late in the season. And I really like the colors in this picture.

Modified by farmerbt1 at 11:16 PM 1/10/2006

Do you suppose they flared up because of her, Bill?

So you do have confirmation of Cougars in your area?? What area if Kansas are you in?? That's interesting. I've heard of them in Iowa, MN, maybe Ill., Mich., but hadn't heard Kansas. It seems as though they are coming East. Plenty of whitetails for them to eat in the MW.
Modified by Dean Weimer at 5:29 AM 1/11/2006

Dean: I'm not sure it's a doe. The time sequence is only a few minutes after the last picture above and it looks like a button buck up close in that picture. Do they also flare when they confront another buck? I've never considerd that question. I may have pictures timed in between and I'll take a look to see if some does came in. BT
Modified by farmerbt1 at 11:30 PM 1/10/2006

Here's a picture taken 3 minutes earlier with a doe and a fawn in the picture - can you tell if the fawn is a doe fawn - not sure than I can tell either way? The next picture a minute later is not conclusive except to show the same fawn and doe in the picture.

Modified by farmerbt1 at 11:36 PM 1/10/2006

About the cougars. I've seen the tracks - 5 inches across - including a set going through our garden 2 years ago. They have been sighted over the last 6-8 years by very reliable people - including by hunters on both sides of us - a mother with half grown kitten to the north heading towards our farm and a full grown cat last year off our south line which came w/i 50 yards - so big the hunter thought at first it was a deer coming at him. I've called fish and game for our county and they say they have reports but won't confirm. I've seen articles in the newspaper where 3 or 4 have been killed in the last year+ on the roads around Kansas City which were not released pets. Farm's in SE KS and we have lots and lots of old pit land not too far away where deer and cats can hide and never be seen. We also have a good sized stream coming through the farm where they can just follow the big timber up the drainage. If I had more cameras I'd set them up on some of the thickest areas on the neighbors where we have big old log piles where the timber was piled up 30+ year ago when the fence line was dozed out = perfect places for a den. I think I mentioned in a previous post that I saw a doe at the fence a couple of years ago with her rear flank split open with the meat showing - 3 4 inch long parallel cuts an inch apart - nothing we have except a big cat could do that. We have them - just not sure how many and I've been told they may range 30 miles so they probably come and go but with our deer population on the farm they couldn't find a much better place. I've thought that I've also been missing some calves the last couple of years but can't prove it's cats.

A previous poster on the KS board above - a biologist - personally saw one in Miami County this year - thats on the KS-MO border north of us.

Modified by farmerbt1 at 11:54 PM 1/10/2006
Modified by farmerbt1 at 11:59 PM 1/10/2006

Hey BTDo you ever "miss" a deer with the cuddeback. Or is it like the commercial.

Dont mean to overload anybody and not trying to force my love on others - you really dont want to get me started cause I am or can be that commercial. The only thing I like better than actually sitting in the woods watching the deer "turkeys are a far distant second" is sitting in the comfort of the house taking pictures year round of the deer "or turkeys or hummingbirds if the deer are not around" and with the trail cameras in the yard I now get even more pictures at night or when Im not around. My son had a 2006 calendar made for me using just 12 "imagine that" of my pictures from last year and Im so far out that he said he got real tired of going through all of them to pick out the 12 - and the trail cameras didnt go up until the end of September.

And dont' let a photo fanatic be confused with a real deer authority or an expert hunter - saying "cheese" is easy, heck, I'm not close to smart enough to figure out how to see, let alone outwit, one lil old buck over a 3 three month period. See, here I go with that commercial again. Thanks for posting your picture again - I enjoy every picture - and with hand made equipment it's extra special.

BTI dont think thats a doe fawn, it has an awfully square looking head. Most doe heads are round and their ears can be closer to the middle of the top of their head. Thats a good way to tell a doe from a button buck. A button does not have the muscle structure on his head to pull his years straight up like a doe does. The only thing that keeps me from being so sure is the fact that the doe after being in heat would not have a fawn with her. Usually a buck wouldnt let a button stick around if that doe was hot or if he even thought she might be. Heck that doe wouldnt let a button stick around if she thought she was hot so best guess to say doe, but that is the squarest head i have ever seen on one if it is. So in your opinion a cuddeback is better than the rest and worth the investment?
Modified by trdtnlbwhntr at 8:28 PM 1/11/2006

I get just a few blank pictures from the Cuddeback. I get a lot more blanks or "rear" shots of deer going out of the frame from the other camera I have set up - the other was a lot less expensive "1/3 the cost" and uses a SD card "vs the CF card in the Cudde" which fits right into my digital camera and I can check the pictures on the spot, but for the fast trigger speed, the quality of the pictures, the flash distance and the extended battery life, when I get another one I'll probably spend the money and get another Cuddeback.
Modified by farmerbt1 at 8:08 PM 1/17/2006

I couldn't summarize my deer season any better than this picture! Rut's over and I think I'll make it my last picture post until the rut starts again next fall. Over and out.